La Llorona haunts New Mexico's arroyos, cemeteries, even the PERA building in Santa Fe. But you probably have heard only a tiny fraction of all the stories about the Wailing Woman. Check out my NM Author Q&A with Judith Shaw Beatty, editor of this spine-tingling collection of La Llorona tales from around the Southwest.
Try to imagine a world with no internet or computers, no telephones or paved roads or electricity. A remote valley in northern New Mexico where only one person owned an automobile. This was the world where Carmen Baca’s father was a teenager-almost-a-man in the 1920s. Her debut novel El Hermano fictionalizes her father’s initiation into the Cofridía, the brotherhood of los Hermanos Penitentes. The book has been selling well in local bookstores and on Amazon since it was published in 2017 by Western Edge Press. Part of that appeal is no doubt curiosity about the secret rituals of the Penitentes, which have been sensationalized over the decades.
What is often overlooked, though—perhaps because the mainstream culture no longer has the vocabulary for thinking about it—is the holism of the brotherhood. In that remote place and time, los Hermanos were all about community—initiating young men into their role as brothers supporting each other and ministering to the welfare of everyone in the village. Life was harsh there, and much was expected of them, but they were supported by the underlying values of mutual respect, piety, and honor.
El Hermano is narrated first-person by José, Baca’s father, at age 15. It opens on Ash Wednesday, when José’s older brother, Miguel, is being initiated as a novicio. Baca herself didn’t witness the secret rituals in the morada, but she grew up surrounded by the culture. Her scenes set in the morada, where young José is alternately spying through a window and participating in community services, are the most intense and evocative descriptions of religious experience I’ve ever encountered. The adolescent José is nearly consumed by his fervent desire to become a novicio himself, but is told he’s still too young.
Carmen Baca taught English and history in high school and college before retiring in 2014. El Hermano was a finalist in the NM-AZ Book Awards. After that, she took a new direction with the novel Las Mujeres Misteriosas (2018, Lulu Press), and Cuentos Del Cañón (2019, Clarendon House Publications), a story anthology.
“After writing El Hermano, my writing turned to more of a magical realism bent because I’m endeavoring to keep our dying traditions alive through literature,” Baca says. “A big part of that is our folk tales, legends, the supernatural, and the paranormal.” Baca also has published 21 short pieces in online literary magazines, women’s blogs, and anthologies. She and her husband live in the country near where she grew up.
Ramona: You wrote that El Hermano comes from your memories of growing up in Cañoncito after WWII, when your parents returned to their ancestral home after serving in other states in the war effort. Did they resume the activities of the Cofridía at that time?
Carmen: The memories I used come from my life during the 1960s through the mid-’80s, when the cofradía was active. I used records my parents left and details I remember they told me about to make it as authentic and true as I could. In addition to memories, I used photos, family documents, and research, of course, to portray 1928. The brotherhood’s records document the years the cofradía was active. It ran from 1850 through 1986 but without my parents when they were away working for the war effort.
Ramona: How do you think life in the community after WWII differed from 1928, the time El Hermano is set in?
Carmen: By the mid-’40s, most of los Hermanos left the rural community of Cañoncito de las Manuelitas in northern New Mexico to reside in Las Vegas, exactly how I depicted in the book. The men held down jobs like school custodians, maintenance workers, auto mechanics—their lives of labor and military service gave them the skills of the trades to support their families. The women found employment, too, like my mother who worked at the local parachute factory and at the state hospital before I was born.
Many of my aunts worked as cooks for one of the school districts in the town. They enjoyed middle- to lower-class status in the poor neighborhoods or those closest to the poor ones. They learned what prejudice was, in some instances. (I’ve written about that, too.) But they also enjoyed the comforts they could afford. They had electricity, and most had indoor plumbing; and they had at least one car or truck per family. The women exchanged ice boxes for refrigerators, wood stoves for gas. They had grocery stores, a public library, parks, and clothing shops within walking distance. It was a different life, but it was a welcome one.
The men still returned to check on their adobe homes in Cañoncito to feed the livestock after work. I remember doing that with my dad. The entire family spent the months of the growing season there every weekend and summers. My mother used to fashion these matching duck-billed bonnets for us as protection from the hot sun on the days we bent over our hoes, weeding the extensive jardín.
The crops from that garden and the meats from the home butchering filled the freezers for the winters. Those spring weekends spent at Cañoncito also included the most busy season for los Hermanos and las Verónicas: Lent. Living through that always took me back into the past, to a time before my life began. Those are the memories I used when I depicted my father at age 15.
So the location where we spent much of our lives changed, but the traditions of the past were continued. Until los Hermanos died out, and my generation and those after mine allowed them to be forgotten.
Ramona: Was there a priest for the community in 1928? How about after WWII?
Carmen: There was no priest here, which is why los Hermanos took care of the spiritual needs of the residents who lived in the valley. They also acted as leaders who performed many services for the community. (There are still communities here in northern New Mexico whose Hermanos do the same, even though some have monthly visiting priests.) There has never been a priest in Cañoncito de las Manuelitas. In the ’60s through the ’80s when I was around, I can recall the times priests were called upon to perform mass here in the little capilla down the road from my house. We had a few funeral and wedding masses here, one for the celebration of Santo Niño, for which the church is named, and an outdoor one at the repres to bless the newly constructed dam for the acequia. (Represa is the actual Spanish word for dam; repres is our regional dialect.)
Ramona: I want to make sure I get this correct: it was the village of Cañoncito?
Carmen: Cañoncito is a rural community with houses along a ten-mile dirt road running through the little canyon for which it’s named. It’s not a village or a town on a map. It’s a beautiful scattering of homes (some of the adobe homes from El Hermano still stand and a few are occupied) with acres of meadows in between and forests on either side. Livestock graze here and there, and wildlife visit as they pass in search of water or food, since we lie in the middle of the mountains they call home.
The school where my father received his education from grades one through eight still stands down the road between my house and the church. I live where the José of the book lived while growing up and after marrying my mother. The book details the two places of worship in Cañoncito at the time: the capilla, the church where we prayed the stations of the cross, and the morada, the prayer house used by los Hermanos. Both structures still stand.
Ramona: José’s experiences during those weeks of Lent seem to me like a formal initiation, in which a boy is schooled in the responsibilities of being an adult, a responsible member of the community. And there’s the spiritual aspect, too, with José undergoing a profound experience of what it means to be a follower of Christ. It’s meant to be challenging, testing him in every way. Do you think our modern society has lost something valuable by not giving young people real initiations?
Carmen: The initiation of brothers still exists today because some of the brotherhoods do. So it’s not completely lost, either here in the Southwest or in many Spanish-speaking countries. However, because so many communities here have no cofradías in their areas, I do think the younger members, male and female, have lost something valuable from their culture. Those who are Catholic have their own versions of this in the church—confirmation. But the communities which no longer have cofradías have allowed a piece of our past to die out, and that’s never a good thing.
Ramona: On p. 63, during the most dramatic moments of the Penitente ritual, the names of their ancestors are called out and prayers are said for their souls. With people moving around so much more nowadays, is this custom still practiced in your part of the world.
Carmen: I have experienced this only a few times at Catholic funeral masses when the priest calls out the names people have told him to remember and then allows people to call out the names of those deserving of a prayer and a moment of remembrance. That tradition seems to have passed on as well.
However, in many of our homes, we still put up our own altars like our parents and grandparents in a corner of the living room or bedroom. Our saints, both retablos and statues, rest between pictures of our loved ones. Because we see them every day, they remain in our minds and hearts. We still light our candles and recite our prayers daily for our loved ones wherever they are.
This is one tradition, at least, that many households still cling to. I can think of another that I don’t think is done anymore: priests coming to the house to pray masses with their parishioners. I can remember up until the ’80s my mother called upon her priest to give a mass in our living room for one occasion or another. Neighbors and relatives came from the same block as well as from the other side of the town to pray in my mom’s living room.
Ramona: Are the Penitente traditions still continuing in northern New Mexico?
Carmen: They are few and far between, not in every rural community and hamlet like in the past. I know of four which exist just twenty miles from where I live, so there are some still active. In fact, after writing El Hermano, I went to pray with the brothers of one of those cofradías on Good Friday of 2017. The initiates still undergo some sort of formal induction, I am told. Since I am female, I can only answer for the one I experienced as a Verónica.
Ramona: El Hermano is obviously a labor of love in the memory of your parents. Why did you feel so strongly moved to write this book?
Carmen: It was after the brotherhood, and by necessity the sisterhood, disbanded in the mid-1980s that the religious artifacts of the morada and the church were distributed among those of us still living.
We met and collected the saints and candleholders, the retablos and the manteles, everything in the church and the prayer house. We had heard that those which were no longer active and which had been abandoned were getting looted, and the religious artifacts were being sold by thieves.
I remember clearly one prima taking a santo, another taking a retablo—each surviving Hermano and Verónica taking a relic to care for in their homes. There were only two Hermanos left of the twelve of my youth which I depicted in El Hermano, five Verónicas and me, the youngest. There were many artifacts still unclaimed, so I was asked to offer them refuge. A wooden box which had been locked for all those years came home with my husband and me.
Discovering what was in that box led me to write El Hermano. There are many books about los Hermanos out there, though none written as a narrative in the first-person perspective of an Hermano, much less the highest ranking one, el Hermano Mayor. I set out to be the one to write it because I could convey the longing to join the brotherhood like no one else. I had experienced it firsthand. I begged my father for decades to allow me to be the first female to join, but he kept to the rules governing the brotherhood, and I was always denied.
The longing the main character feels, the devout desire to become one of the brothers, came from the depths of my emotions. So did the profound and poignant effect of praying with that group of men on my life. I wanted to convey what it was like to those who have never experienced praying with los Hermanos.
When the entire group of twelve knelt in unison on the hardwood floor of the capilla, and my father or his brother recited the Stations of the Cross, the chills rose on my back and stayed there the entire hour of the service. Something about the doleful tones of twelve devout men and the words of both the prayers and the hymns was hauntingly beautiful and touched the soul. I tried my best to convey how special and how awful it was. Deep, heartfelt agony arose in those men’s voices when they recounted such vivid details as the number of lashes on Christ’s back, or the punches to the face the solders gave him, the pricks of the crown of thorns, or the open wound in His side. Every detail of every atrocity Christ underwent comes to life in those prayers with los Hermanos. No religious ceremony does that as effectively to remind us just what He did on our behalf.
At two different book reading events, a couple of present-day brothers asked what right I had to write about them since I had never belonged. When I explained that I wanted to convey them in a different light, out of my utmost and deep respect for them, because of how I felt about their society due to my growing up as the daughter of el Hermano Mayor, they accepted my reasons. I’m pretty sure the tremor in my voice affected their opinions. I’m always close to tears when I speak of los Hermanos’ effect on me spiritually. There are far more Hermanos who read my book and who went out of their way to communicate to me their appreciation of my depiction of the brotherhood. That today’s Hermanos approve means the world to me.
As the last surviving member of my community’s Verónicas, I wanted to convey how important the female society was to the brotherhood. We were the ones who assured their places of worship were clean and ready for Lenten services. We were the ones who made and delivered their food. We accompanied them in every Friday night recitation of the Stations of the Cross, and we participated in their processions and the few rituals they allowed. I still take pride in the small part I played as one of them.
Ramona: In your novel Las Mujeres Misteriosas, I love your concept of having three supernatural beings scheming and manipulating the life of a sensitive young woman, Rosita. Two of the beings are major figures in Hispanic folklore, Santa Muerte and La Llorona, and the third is the ghost of a relative. Not all of them have Rosita’s best interests at heart! How did you come up with this plot idea?
Carmen: I have to chuckle at the question of how I came up with any plot idea after El Hermano. After that book published in 2017, I honestly thought it was going to be my one and only book. After I finished writing El Hermano, I experienced a profound sadness, as though I were saying goodbye to those people in the book, my parents especially. A few months later, I came up with ideas for short stories based off some of the secondary characters.When I discovered I could bring them back in subsequent stories, the inspiration turned into my third book, a short story collection called Cuentos del Cañón. I brought back el Serpiente, but most significantly, la Muerte, and la Lunática, Claudia Cardenas.
Before that book was finished, however, I found a novella contest, and I decided to bring in la Llorona, who I barely mentioned in El Hermano. I wanted to write a story that showed her as the character I had read about. But I took the liberty of giving her limited powers while depicting the “true story” behind her reasons for haunting the waterways of the Southwest. Then, of course, she needed a nemesis, and who better than the two powerful women from my first book. Rosita came into play because I needed la Llorona to have a human plaything. When the novella turned into a novel, it became my second book.
I had always enjoyed mysteries, the supernatural, the paranormal, and even horror, but never did I think I could write one. Truthfully, no one saw that book before it published. No proofreader, no editor, just me—for fun. I had joined so many writing groups where almost every author was self-published, and I wanted to see if I could do that. While I panicked it would be a failure, I was instead thrilled when a few readers said they couldn’t read it because of the nightmares. That’s when I knew I could write a mystery, and I’ve been experimenting ever since.
Coyota in the Kitchen: A Memoir of New and Old Mexico, by Anita Rodriguez (2016: UNM Press), is stuffed with fascinating information. Such as how can you determine the temperature inside an horno oven? (Buy an oven thermometer.) What’s a delicious way to cook a freshly caught rabbit? There’s a recipe that involves cornflakes. How do you prepare chicos? You’ll need two days and garden hose. How does a woman establish herself in the hard-core macho world of adobe construction? The answer is worth a book in itself. Taos resident Anita Rodriguez managed to do it and even earned the grudging respect of her male rivals.
Rodriguez has crossed many borders in her life: both material and nonmaterial. Her recipes and stories can serve as metaphors for those borders: Indian, Hispanic, and gringo borders, the border between the U.S. and Mexico, the border between life and death. And the border is where incompatible worlds clash, and create anew.
I adore this book! Reading it was like being tossed into a simmering cauldron of magical ingredients, a soup that can change you down down down through many layers if you let it.
Ramona: Your family was most unusual: your mother a Southern belle and your father a Mexican pharmacist from Chihuahua. That kind of family situation may not be as unusual today, when people travel and move around much more. Do you think it’s easier now for a “coyota” child to avoid prejudice growing up?
Anita: I think that now there is a great deal more intermarriage, and it is more acceptable, although still charged. When my parents married there were still people living who had seen the American conquest, the cannoning of the Pueblo church, the hangings on the Plaza, and the bitterness was very fresh.
Ramona: As a child, you were acutely aware of these different worlds, yet you felt you didn’t fit into any. Do you think that status gave you unusual insight into the different worlds?
Anita: Absolutely. Lots of people live their entire lives and never realize that there are infinite, utterly authentic other cultural universes and believe that the particular bubble they live in is the “right” one or even the only one. From the cradle I was told I was “neither fish nor fowl,” and it was tremendously formative, and in retrospect a gift, a blessing, a rare opportunity.
Ramona: You wrote you were born just after that “historical crucible” when Anglos from the East invaded New Mexico, championed Indian causes, and either ignored the Hispanics or took their land through both legal and illegal deals, all while inventing tourism. Your mother was actually a tourist who met your father on the Taos Plaza. Now that nearly every corner of New Mexico is dedicated to seeking tourism dollars, do you think tourism has helped or hurt New Mexico’s Hispanic population?
Anita: Well, tourism is just another stage of conquest and colonization, and although the conquered can adjust and find ways to circumvent the harms and even profit marginally, I think that far, far more tourist dollars end up in Indian pockets than in Hispanic ones, precisely because Natives are more profitable to promote, more exotic, etc. Born in the interface between old enemies gave me a ringside seat on cultural confluence and conflict and how racism in New Mexico is selective.
Ramona: Your paternal grandmother was no sweet storyteller. Instead she terrified her grandchildren with lurid tales of La Llorona, the devil, haunted places, her people being scalped by Apaches and Comanches, so much so that you were afraid to visit the outhouse at night. And your maternal grandmother maintained a long list of forbidden topics from her Southern upbringing, including any talk about race. In villages and Pueblos across New Mexico, old grievances fester in the dark. As a child balancing between these worlds, you realized how harmful keeping secrets can be. Do you think our society now still keeps too many secrets, or have we gone too far in the other direction?
Anita: Until all the dirty secrets of our country are told, processed, admitted, and reconciled we will never be at peace but will only repeat the same mistakes again and again. My family just happened to encompass almost all of the country’s atrocities, slavery, genocide, conquest, AND racism. And white people will resist, complain about the discomfort of having to know terrible truths and their fragility will be wounded—but it is the only way—the truth has to be fully told.
Ramona: You wrote that remote Taos was the isolated frontier of mestizaje, where the European root was grafted onto the Indian root. When you were growing up, other children taunted you by calling you “coyota,” meaning the offspring of Hispanic and gringo parents. Would you say this kind of bullying pushed you deeper into your own imagination, forcing you to rely on your courage? Did you have to learn not to be bitter?
Anita: All of those things. My imagination became a refuge, then a tool, a source of inspiration. My isolation became my creative solitude, it honed and polished my courage. And the moral choice to not be bitter, but as the Dalai Lama says, “Lose—but don’t lose the lesson,” has enriched and empowered me. Bitterness is its own punishment, and rejecting it leads to understanding and compassion.
Ramona: Grandma Coyota, the imaginary magical persona you created to counter the teasing of other children, was a figure of power and cunning. She was your “real relative,” who embodied all the amazing qualities of coyotes, and you made up stories about her exploits. Thus you turned a badge of shame into a badge of bravery. I think you should write a children’s book about her! Did you ever tell anyone about Grandma Coyota?
Anita: Grandma Coyota was my secret until I began to write, then she came loping into the studio, flopped down on the floor, farted, and said, “Why do you hang with those two-leggeds anyway? Let's go kill chickens!”
Ramona: You spent a summer traveling around to villages to find enjarradoras, the women who had formerly comprised half of the construction crews who built adobe structures--from houses to churches. These skilled women did construction, maintenance, and repair of adobe walls. You learned that “collective, cooperative building had been woven into Native and Hispanic culture.” These women, now elderly, were so happy that you sought them out and interviewed them. And you started learning how to make a living with these skills in the modern construction business. You met a lot of resistance from the male-dominated culture, but you persisted, and eventually your 15 years of work were recognized by architects and others in the industry. Did your efforts make a lasting difference in the adobe construction business? Is it any easier now for enjarradoras to work in the Southwest?
Anita: I know of no traditional enjarradoras who are practicing today—it is very hard work. And I know of no book that tells the whole story and details all the processes in one place. However, I believe I changed the thinking of the industry and a lot of people regarding the material. My formulas are all over the net, my work is featured in various books, but most important the qualities of mud as a building material are now valued.
Mud is universally available, biodegradable, non-polluting, infinitely sculptural, and it can be adapted to any cultural style. The energy it consumes is human—meaning jobs—and the best thing about it is that when no longer needed, it melts back into the earth from which it comes. None of our industrial building materials have these qualities.
Ramona: You started painting at age 47 and a year later had a show and sold half of it. Many artists struggle for years to make it. What inspired your confidence in yourself? And how did living in Guanajuato affect your painting?
Anita: I started painting at 47 and it’s true I have made a living at it, but my work has never received the blessing of a major gallery—only five percent of the world’s major art collections contain the work of women, and if one can eat from her talent it’s a triumph. Guanajuato enormously enriched my painting; one of the reasons I chose to live there is because it is one of the most paintable cities in the world.
Ramona: How would you describe your painting style? It seems unique to me.
Anita: How would I describe my style? I'll accept the mantle my friend Linda Durham, icon of the Santa Fe art world, gave me and claim at least kinship with magical realism.
Ramona: I’ve seen from your posts on Facebook that you take an active role in community life in Taos, especially working to educate newcomers about the culture of the town. Taos is attracting so many ultrarich people now. Has it become a playground for those who can live behind gates and high walls? Do you see any signs that these people want to be integrated into the community?
Anita: Migrants, whether rich or poor, are never welcome. The destructive impact of gentrification on old communities is well known, and so is the sadistic cruelty and corruption great wealth can cultivate. This extreme degree of income inequality is proving to be unsustainable. But I have known and know good rich people.
Among newcomers to Taos there are a few who are sensitive and educated, they WANT to preserve the same things us indigenous New Mexicans do, and as I write some of them are knocking themselves out with considerable expertise and moving dedication to protect Taos from the coming crisis.
And lastly I think everyone craves community; it’s hardwired into the species. And Pueblo and Chicano people have time-tested, historically based, authentic community. Money can’t buy that—but it can destroy it. We will just have to see how things turn out—all we know is that it won’t be the same.
Morada
Ink-jet prints of Anita Rodriguez's artwork are currently carried by Fine Art New Mexico; see https://www.fineartnewmexico.com/anita-rodriguez. From her artist bio on the website: "Her work reflects her very diverse background, exploring her 'Hispanic-Chicano-Mexican-Mestizo-Indian-Jewish-Gringo virtual country.'"
“In 100 years, someone will open The Death of Bernadette Lefthand and still be consumed by the wisdom, the different cultural beliefs between tribes, and struck that love and jealousy are the poles from which evil comes. In my top five favorite reads.”
—Jo-Ann Mapson, author of Blue Rodeo, The Wilder Sister, and Solomon’s Oak
Bernadette is one of those rare books that leave you stunned, wondering what hit you. Because it’s the story of a crime—the brutal murder of a beautiful Navajo powwow dancer—as well as a tale of clashing cultures, of systematic evil, of personal tragedy, it comprises several layers of narration.
“What?” you say. Yes, there are five point-of-view characters, plus an unnamed speaker who steps in with background commentary. This should not work. It breaks all the rules for fiction writing, rules that are pounded into every aspiring fiction writer. Yet somehow, it does work in Bernadette. Which goes to show, a writer who’s truly consumed by their subject can break the rules and get away with it.
When asked how he pulled it off as a first novel, author Ron Querry shrugs (figuratively) and says, in effect, he doesn’t have a clue. He just sat down and wrote it, following his gut.
Winner of the 1993 Border Regional Library Association Southwest Book Award and the 1994 Mountains and Plains Booksellers Association Regional Book Award, Bernadette was reissued in a 25th Anniversary Edition in 2018 by Cinco Puntos Press, El Paso. It’s been published in French, German, and Bulgarian as well.
Ron Querry, a member of the Choctaw Nation, has been living in New Mexico off and on his entire life. As a child he spent summers at his grandparents’ home in Montezuma. After a stint in the Marine Corps, he earned several degrees, eventually getting his PhD at UNM. He’s taught in academia and since 2006 has lived in Las Vegas with his wife, Elaine, a photographer. He’s also the author of the 1998 thriller Bad Medicine.
Here’s our recent interview:
Ramona: Bernadette is written in multiple voices: Gracie and Starr (first person), with additional shorter sections in close personal third person or omniscient point-of-view (Tom George, Bernadette, Emmett Take Horse, and an unnamed narrator). Using multiple points of view is challenging even for very experienced writers, yet you accomplished it in a first novel. Did you have an overall vision of how the different voices would cohere in a plot?
Ron: I had no plan at all for the novel. It was my first ever attempt at such a thing and I simply began writing and I found I was telling the story from the point of view of a young Indian girl—Gracie Lefthand. Gracie is telling us about that terrible day when the tribal police came to her house to tell her father that her older sister, Bernadette, had been killed.
It was only when there came a point in Gracie’s narrative that I realized that I needed to let the reader know something that Gracie would not have known, would not have been able to articulate, that I understood I needed to introduce a second narrator . . . a second voice to tell us what Gracie (16 years old) would not know or would not have the appropriate voice with which to tell.
And this happened again when I discovered that I needed someone else’s point of view, or someone else who would know what others did/could not. I was always surprised at what direction things would go.
I should tell you that if in reading the book you find yourself surprised by some turn, you can be pretty certain that I was surprised as well. I appreciate you saying that this use of multiple narrators or points of view is challenging and that you feel I accomplished it.
My late author friend Chuck Bowden told me once that he was given Bernadette and that he really didn’t favor fiction but that he kept after it because he didn’t think I could possibly maintain a young girl’s voice throughout. I was pleased that he thought I did so.
Ramona: The personas/voices of Gracie and Starr, the former model who employs Bernadette, come across quite convincingly. Do you have a knack for getting inside the heads of your characters?
Ron: I prefer to think that Gracie and Starr got into my head. In any case, because I imagined these characters, I suppose it would be fair to say they are me. I can tell you that I knew the sounds of their voices and what they were thinking at all times. Funny, but what they looked like . . . not so much. Only later would I see someone and think, “That could be Gracie,” or Bernadette, etc. Because I had a real individual in mind for Starr, I always had a picture of her in my head.
Ramona: The voice of Gracie, Bernadette’s grieving younger sister, is especially poignant and consistent throughout. Her description of Bernadette’s last powwow dance is heart-breaking, since she and the reader know already that Bernadette will die. Was this scene hard to write?
Ron: I don’t know . . . I’m sure it must’ve been hard. I know it broke my heart. And when Elaine came home from work that evening and I read to her what I’d written—as was my habit—she wept. And the fact she did so made me think I’d gotten it right.
Ramona: One of the most striking aspects of the novel is how deftly you portray the Navajo and Apache cultures. Do you think the fact that you are Choctaw gave you any insights into the Navajo or Apache culture? Or perhaps an ability to perceive aspects of Navajo or Apache culture that white people aren’t likely to notice?
Ron: The fact that I am Choctaw probably didn’t afford me any particular insight into Navajo or Apache lifeways, other than possibly an awareness that these different tribes or nations are as different as any other nations are or can be from one another.
I’m probably more like Starr is in that respect—that is, I have read and studied the extant materials having to do with the people about whom I write. I have tried very hard to make sure that I don’t make silly mistakes—some readers will always write and point out errors. Or what they perceive to be an error, anyway.
Ramona: You say in your Afterword that you assumed the book would find an audience, but it wouldn’t be Indian, especially not Navajo. Who are the readers of Bernadette? How it has been received over the years in the Navajo community? I’m thinking of a similar example: the mysteries of Tony Hillerman have been popular among Navajo readers. He also wrote about Navajo spiritual beliefs.
Ron: Over the twenty-five-plus years that Bernadette has been available, it has enjoyed popular appeal with all kinds of readers. Navajo and Jicarilla Apache readers, especially, have expressed to me admiration and enjoyment. My comment that I didn’t expect a Navajo audience was based on the fact that the book has to do with witchcraft and other aspects of Navajo lifeways that I anticipated would not appeal to traditional Navajo people. Indeed, I’ve had younger Navajo people tell me that their parents might not be comfortable with the book. I don’t really know.
Ramona: The cover photo of the second edition is perfect. Kudos to Elaine Querry!
Ron Querry: I love that image and the design of the cover. The image is one Elaine took at Taos Pueblo 30-some years ago. She calls it “Dream of Bernadette.”
Ramona: Is Bernadette available in bookstores?
Ron: The book is distributed in those mysterious ways that books get to booksellers. I have nothing to do with that. Of course, Amazon is a huge bookseller, but I’ve seen the book in bookstores and gift shops. I’m always happy to see it, as you can imagine.
Ramona: What about the book’s reception (both editions) has pleased you? What has displeased you?
Ron: I am pleased with the book’s reception in all its various editions in every way. If I’m displeased by anything, it would be the lack of promotion and distribution that I reckon every author feels. I confess that I have a hard time with self-promotion, and that’s clearly not a good thing for writers and other artists.
